Comments on: Something In Common

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By: GeeGuy

GeeGuy — Wed, 24 May 2006 15:08:57 +0000

Al-Do you honestly think there is no difference between a health inspection and sending someone in repeatedly to attempt to elicit a violation of the law?

And, with all due respect, only in government would one claim that the failure of a program after years of effort means that is all the more reason to keep spending resources on that program. So what you’re saying is that there is a program causing a great deal of hardship on local businesses and their employees, and it does not appear to be working (or at a minimum, you cannot document that it is), and you think it should keep going.

And, Wolfpack makes a great point, what is your program doing to catch the adults that purchase alcohol for minors?

By: WolfPack

WolfPack — Wed, 24 May 2006 05:36:32 +0000

Al- From your post it is clear that the majority of the problem is not in the bars but from adults purchasing for minors. When was the last sting operation to net these scofflaws and their names published in the paper? If there hasn’t been one why not? Are the police selectively enforcing the law or is this just a publicity stunt against bar owners justified by a righteous cause? The DUI task force has closely aligned it’s self with MADD which has definitely become a prohibitionist group and has done little in the last decade to forward the cause for which they were founded. This is according to the woman who founded them and has recently been taking them to task for being prohibitionists ( http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/17 ).

By: Al Recke

Al Recke — Tue, 23 May 2006 16:14:14 +0000

Wolf Pack…”ouch” about the prohibitionist crowd… to tell you the truth, I really don’t know if anyone in the Task Force is a prohibitionist. I know I like a glass of wine with dinner and a cold beer now and then, especially when the Red Sox beat the Yankees! so to generalize is inaccurate and foolish. I don’t know if your stats are accurate or not about the 95% of drinking goes on in homes… I care where they drink, but most importantly I care about how the alcohol is obtained. My observations about how it’s gotten is based on my extensive conversations with minors caught and convicted of MIP. They usually get the alcohol from parents when 1 or 2 kids are involved in the home, they get it from 3rd party sales (older brother/sister) and using fake/altered IDs for larger buys. According to my info, more than 5% get served in bars… I would say 25% would be more like it.
Gee Guy… are resturants and bars subject to health inspections? Do the mashed potatoes need to be a minimum temp as well as the cold foods? If a violation is observed does the business not get a citation and if not corrected in a timly manner suffer greater consequences? Do they not risk the loss of their business if they ignore the problems? Like the truck stop on the westside and their sewage problems? It takes a lot of violations to get a liquor license pulled and I don’t know of one ever being pulled. You ask “have spot checks reduced underage drinking in Cascade County?” It appears the numbers have not gone down and may even be going up some, but I feel that is all the more reason to push the issue on several fronts such as Malmstrom, bars, chain stores, mom & pop stores and parents. Also in 2002 there were 558 drivers under 21 involved in an alcohol-related crash, in 2003 437 in 2004 499… 2005 stats are not yet available. However there are more drivers on the road too so it appears the numbers are holding fairly steady… As with any stats tho it all depends on how you count the beans. Do you see a problem with underage drinking and access to alcohol and if so your ideas on how to address them? I’m interested in your thoughts on the subject if you would…

By: Gee Guy

Gee Guy — Sun, 21 May 2006 20:06:26 +0000

Al.

First, I apologize for mistakenly referring to you as a police officer.

You say that the “offender should realize their mistake, pay the penalty and learn a lesson. Then make a choice to serve alcohol again or not… no big deal.” That demonstrates the mindset that leads to the “dirty pool” comments.

The “offender” is generally two people: the individual, who made a mistake, and the business, that employs that person. You’re right that the individual can then “make a choice.” The business owner, however, usually doesn’t make a choice at all. Most business owners in this industry actively choose to try NOT to sell to underage people, but their employees can, despite all of the best intentions and policies, make mistakes. But that doesn’t do the businesman any good when you hit them and hit them and hit them over and over until you catch ‘em. Then, even though the business owner has done everything right, they risk the loss of their business. And you then cavalierly reply “no big deal?”

Tell us this. Have the spot checks reduced underage drinking in Cascade County? Do you have statistically significant evidence of that? How about rates of underage DUIs? Any evidence?

By: WolfPack

WolfPack — Sat, 20 May 2006 15:12:13 +0000

Al- absolutely the police department selectively enforces laws. There are 1000 times as many people jaywalking as committing murder but the GF police spend 1000 times more resources on solving murders. Do you think this is a bad thing or just common sense? I don’t know the exact statistics but I’m sure I’m not far off, 95% of the underage drinking takes place at homes or parties and 5% at bars with that 5% being mostly 19 years of age and above. Yet 95% of the funds earmarked for the underage drinking problem are spent spot checking bars where the problem isn’t. Does this make sense or is this in line with the thinking of the prohibitionist crowd of the DUI Task force?

By: Al Recke

Al Recke — Fri, 19 May 2006 20:24:56 +0000

First, I’m not a police officer. Second, I realize people make mistakes. I have made a bunch myself and I’m sure police officers do too. Some mistakes are more serious than others, ie; drunk driver kills person verses an error in a report. I do feel though that the “dirty pool” comments aren’t justified. Do you advocate that the police “look the other way” when they see a law being violated? If so, then what we’ll have is selective enforcement and we all know that would create havoc not to mention resentment for the law enforcement officers. The offender should realize their mistake, pay the penalty and learn a lesson. Then make a choice to serve alcohol again or not… no big deal.

By: Gee Guy

Gee Guy — Thu, 18 May 2006 05:18:29 +0000

I know how the checks work. Similar checks have been thrown out as entrapment in Silverbow county.

The problem is this. You test a business. It passes. You test the same business, it passes again. You test the same business, it passes again. You test the same business, it passes again. You test the same business, it passes again. You test the same business, then it fails.

So you have demonstrated that you have a responsible business person operating responsibly. But, there’s a slip as there will inevitably be. And then they pay the consequences.

What if an independent auditing group reviewed every police report for absolute compliance with regulations. A particular officer turns in perfect reports, time after time. And then, once…he’s tired, he’s in a fight with his wife, he’s stressed. He makes an error. Too bad. He loses his job.

My guess is that you would feel differently about that, Officer Recke.

By: Al Recke

Al Recke — Wed, 17 May 2006 15:50:38 +0000

Have any of you who have critized the police for enforcing the law actually talked to them and listened as to how the compliance checks are conducted? or are you shooting from the hip? If anyone elects to sell / serve alcohol, they are subject to compliance monitoring… just like if you sell firearms. The state and local laws are very explicit and if you sell / serve alcohol you should be smart enough to know them and ensure compliance. There is/ was no “dirty pool” as the mayor states… just honest police enforcing, not selectively i might add, the law to all citizens.

By: Gee Guy

Gee Guy — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 02:18:28 +0000

Let’s see. It still expands when I stop typing, but not off of the edge of page. Perfect!